The Tactical Medic - Where Do They Fit into the Close Protection Team | Kris Zerkowitz

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:00:00

Not everybody needs to be a paramedic, but

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:00:01

everybody needs the basics.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:00:03

Everybody needs to be able to keep the paramedic as far away as possible from the

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actual action, but keep the patients alive long enough for them to get them there.

Intro: 00:00:21

Welcome to the Circuit magazine, the number.

Intro: 00:00:24

Source of information on protection matters.

Intro: 00:00:26

The industry leading magazine for all security professionals who

Intro: 00:00:29

want to stay ahead of the game.

Phelim: 00:00:37

is there a middle ground between embedding a medical

Phelim: 00:00:40

doctor and embedding a medic?

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Introducing the embedded tactical paramedic today, we're going

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to meet with Kris Zerkowitz.

Phelim: 00:00:52

Director and trainer at Amaranti academy and big operator out in Belgium.

Phelim: 00:00:58

And of course, across the world, I'm hit with Shaun West.

Phelim: 00:01:02

Shaun, why is this a key topic?

Phelim: 00:01:04

Cause I know we've had medical topics on the podcast before.

Phelim: 00:01:08

Why, why tactical medicine as a topic?

Shaun: 00:01:12

It's a, it's a great topic.

Shaun: 00:01:13

And Kristian, we've heard him speak many times and he's very passionate about it.

Shaun: 00:01:17

So I'm looking forward to this one, especially, but why a tactical

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medic, you can, you can have a paramedic who is highly trained.

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They have a lot of skills in keeping someone alive, saving their life.

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What's different with a tactical medic is when you're out there

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working in a hostile remote.

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You're working there you are.

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You don't have all of the things that is second nature to a paramedic.

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You haven't got all them medical equipment bags, hospitals, and

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equipment right next to you.

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So you need to be able to work with what you've got and also have the

Shaun: 00:01:51

situational awareness around you of the tactical situation that's going on.

Shaun: 00:01:57

If you've got hostiles going out, you undeserved medical situation going on.

Shaun: 00:02:02

You know, you've got, you've got the noggin, how to deal with it and the

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experience where a paramedic, maybe hasn't got that background and skillset, they

Shaun: 00:02:10

can keep you alive, but they're better passing the casually over that person.

Shaun: 00:02:17

After you've dealt with the situation.

Phelim: 00:02:19

So should everybody try and have tactical medicine in their back pocket?

Phelim: 00:02:23

Or is this something so specialized that you really don't want to distract from

Phelim: 00:02:28

other people's, you know, main jobs?

Phelim: 00:02:31

Um, it, it, this isn't like having CPR is a skill in your back pocket.

Phelim: 00:02:34

Is it

Shaun: 00:02:36

on every team?

Shaun: 00:02:37

I think medical skills, everybody knows, you know, it's a great faucet on skill

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set to help in any close protection team.

Shaun: 00:02:46

And I think.

Shaun: 00:02:48

It depends where you're operating and what, and to what level

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of training on skillset and how far you decide to take it.

Shaun: 00:02:55

But I think certainly if you're working in these remote hostile environments, you

Shaun: 00:03:00

should be looking at not just the basic medical courses you should be looking

Shaun: 00:03:04

at, you know, in the UK, it's different.

Shaun: 00:03:06

I think you have three front, four or five.

Shaun: 00:03:09

I don't know what the, what they're called over in the states or in other

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countries, but you should be looking.

Shaun: 00:03:14

Learning great skills, how to use them, know what you're

Shaun: 00:03:18

going to tick in your pocket.

Shaun: 00:03:20

You know, if you're going to a remote hostile place, what you're

Shaun: 00:03:22

puking, don't take everything.

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If it's not relevant, just take what you need for that task and equipment

Shaun: 00:03:27

that you know, what you're able to use.

Shaun: 00:03:29

And you as well.

Shaun: 00:03:30

Um, somebody who's doing the basic 12 is better than carrying a whole

Shaun: 00:03:34

load of fancy medical equipment that maybe you don't know how to use.

Phelim: 00:03:39

Yeah, and this, this will resonate from anyone that's seen one

Phelim: 00:03:41

of Christian's presentations, you know, cause he often says, you know,

Phelim: 00:03:45

what, what good is it in the boot?

Phelim: 00:03:47

If you've got your principal in the back seat and you're driving away, um, if

Phelim: 00:03:51

you, if you can't access it from inside the vehicle, that's a problem too.

Phelim: 00:03:55

And then yeah, you can take all the paramedic kit in the world.

Phelim: 00:03:59

But if it doesn't fit or you don't have the skills to use it or the

Phelim: 00:04:04

license, you know, I mean, okay.

Phelim: 00:04:06

In a lot of cases, we're talking about places which are pretty, uh, Okay with,

Phelim: 00:04:12

uh, you know, with, you know, saving people's lives in this, in this regard,

Phelim: 00:04:16

but there are places in the world where you're not allowed to use X, Y, and Z.

Phelim: 00:04:19

Um, so, so, so there, there are a lot of considerations.

Phelim: 00:04:23

And even if you brought an actual paramedic with you, and I know we had

Phelim: 00:04:26

Paul steward on, uh, you know, quite a few episodes ago, even if you are an actual

Phelim: 00:04:30

paramedic, uh, which is, you know, it's, it's a protected term, or it doesn't mean.

Phelim: 00:04:35

That you can use that one person in every single environment.

Phelim: 00:04:39

So, so the tactical medic is the happy halfway house.

Phelim: 00:04:43

Uh, so to speak.

Phelim: 00:04:45

I'm very much looking forward to this.

Phelim: 00:04:47

Let's welcome, Kris Zerkowitz.

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on the topic of embedding a tactical paramedic.

Intro: 00:05:02

Now let's meet one of the contributors to the circuit magazine.

Phelim: 00:05:16

Embedding a tactical paramedic, why it matters and why perhaps not

Phelim: 00:05:22

enough teams take it seriously enough.

Phelim: 00:05:24

We're very fortunate to be joined by Kristian, Zerkowitz and embedded

Phelim: 00:05:28

tactical paramedic at Amarones academy.

Phelim: 00:05:32

Uh, myself and Shawn west are very pleased to have you here.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:05:36

I am very well.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:05:37

Thank you.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:05:37

Thank you so much for welcoming me.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:05:39

Well,

Phelim: 00:05:39

you're, you're, you're a great friend of the industry that seems to

Phelim: 00:05:43

be a catchphrase of mine, but you're a great friend and you've spoken at least

Phelim: 00:05:46

at our events a lot about this topic, but let's do the three quick fire questions.

Phelim: 00:05:53

Get an overview.

Phelim: 00:05:54

What do you think is the problem as it stands in the industry with the

Phelim: 00:05:58

grant Institute, tactical medicine?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:02

I believe that today, um, people think that tactical medicine.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:07

It's just a catch phrase and people tend to take off the tactical part

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:11

when going to, to study this type of medicine and they go straight into the

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:17

medicine because it's much easier to teach medicine to non tacticians than

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it is to teach the technical part.

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So we'll have a lot of people that believe that their tactical medics,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:26

well, in the end, they are just medics and this causes a problem

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:30

when things actually go and hit the.

Phelim: 00:06:34

Um, no, I feel I can.

Phelim: 00:06:36

Well imagine.

Phelim: 00:06:37

And, and what about you, um, you know, where does your passion

Phelim: 00:06:41

for this skillset come from?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:44

Well, w in, in the beginning of my career, I was supposed

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:47

to be very, you know, very quick on the draw and, uh, and, and very

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:51

good at what I used to do, being in the close protection industry.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:54

And then somebody wants to ask me that question.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:06:56

He said, Kris, if something goes bad, you know, w what can you do to have.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:01

And I said, well, you know, I can rush you to a hospital

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:04

and tell you to stop bleeding.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:05

Um, and then of course, I'm quick on the draw, so nothing will happen.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:09

And then there's this colleague of mine said, well, Chris, all of that

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:12

is great, but I'm a tactical medic.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:14

And if you get shot in the ass, excuse my French, then you know, I will be

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:18

able to help you right here right now while still keeping the bad guys away.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:23

And that, that put me started to make me.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:27

How I could be in the industry for, at that time.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:29

Well, over 10 years and not know anything about medicine.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:32

And I realized that I, I just had been very lucky and I, I wanted to stop

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:07:37

pushing my luck and become professional.

Phelim: 00:07:40

No, I, I can, I can fully appreciate it.

Phelim: 00:07:42

Then you, you, you painted a very vivid, vivid picture.

Phelim: 00:07:45

Um, what about those who don't know anything about medicine and

Phelim: 00:07:51

the thing about paramedics, um, uh, within the EAP field, what

Phelim: 00:07:57

should they start to think about?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:00

I think that if people are within the executive protection

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:03

industry, um, they need to start with the basics, the basics, because as a, as

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:08

a very good instructor of mine and Dr.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:10

Michael Shertz once told me, he said there is no such thing

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:14

as, as complicated techniques.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:17

There's only the basics in very, very bad situations.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:21

Um, so we need to master the basics first and we need to understand that

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:25

we need to be able to execute these masters under very harsh condition.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:29

And this goes for all tactical things, not just the medicine.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:33

Um, so within medicine, you know, people should start with basic life

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:36

support and be able to do that and then, and then advance their way

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:40

up so that they don't think that if they do a very hard course, all of a

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:45

sudden they are doctors or paramedics because they are not, um, and slapping

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:51

on a tourniquet is not a basic skill.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:54

It requires knowledge about how, when and where.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:08:57

And to be able to have that knowledge, you need to start from the beginning.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:00

So having just a basic first aid course, doing CPR is a great way to start and

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:06

keeping that fresh, having done a CPR course in high school is not going

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:10

to cut it when you actually need it.

Shaun: 00:09:12

Yes, Christine, what do you find are the challenges of operating as a

Shaun: 00:09:16

tactical medic in an osteo environment?

Shaun: 00:09:20

Why in a remote environment does not call for tactical medics as opposed to with.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:26

Um, well, for me, um, I would like to quote the, uh, the

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:30

people that are teaching the leftover bang theory, um, within a technical

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:35

setting, we are always aiming to stay left of bang, bang, being everything

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:39

that happens that we don't want to have.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:41

And if you are just a paramedic, um, you will miss certain parts of what we

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:47

don't want to happen and why they happen.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:50

However, if I am a technical paramedic, I will understand the technical needs

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:54

and the tactical aspects of these things.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:09:57

And it will bring me to become better prepared in preparing my team

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:02

to avoid things that might have.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:05

Um, in a way we carry gear, what we carry, how we carry it and how I can be

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:10

an asset to the team and not somebody that's been, you know, dragging along

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:14

an ambulance and being very slow.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:16

Um, so just the way I would fit my gear and my kit to be able to carry

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:20

it on, on, on a long, um, excursion or whatever, it might be changes if I am a

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:10:26

tactical paramedic or if I'm a paramedic.

Shaun: 00:10:29

Yeah.

Shaun: 00:10:29

You make a great point there.

Shaun: 00:10:31

Um, The technical paramedic.

Shaun: 00:10:34

You bring a lot to the team.

Shaun: 00:10:36

It's not just the giving of care.

Shaun: 00:10:37

It's also the providing of advice to different team members.

Shaun: 00:10:41

You can provide training to them.

Shaun: 00:10:43

And what you just said there about how you set your load out.

Shaun: 00:10:46

You know, as I see a lot of people on different teams, they have.

Shaun: 00:10:50

bag of all sorts of fancy things, but they don't know how to use them.

Shaun: 00:10:54

You know, if you don't have to use it, can't get it out,

Shaun: 00:10:58

then have to do the basics.

Shaun: 00:10:59

Well, you know, get the kid that you're going to use and make sure

Shaun: 00:11:02

you can use it when that call

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:03

comes.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:05

Definitely.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:05

I mean, w you know, having a carrying a lot of kit is really good, but in the

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:10

end, are you going to be able to use that kit in the S in the setting that you're

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:14

working in, and the paramedic is going to be reluctant to leave with a lot of

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:18

kit, because, well, they will say, well, I need all this to stabilize my patient.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:22

And he is absolutely right.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:25

What that is, because the paramedic is working under the ideal

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:28

conditions that are provided to him.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:30

This is also the reason why a.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:33

We'll not go into a building that is burning.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:35

He will wait for the patients to get out.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:38

Now as a tactical paramedic, of course we will not make technical

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:42

mistakes and we will not do things, put our own lives at risk.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:45

However, we will be a better judge of how far we can go

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:49

before our lives get into a risk.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:52

If you look at the tech protocol today, that's being taught to everybody.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:11:56

Anything that's medical needs to stay way outside in the cold zone,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:00

or it may be that, uh, the warm zone.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:03

But if I have bleeding patients and I, I have people pinned

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:07

down, they need me there.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:08

And then otherwise I am going to be a coroner and not a paramedic.

Shaun: 00:12:14

Yeah, totally agree.

Shaun: 00:12:15

So do you think everyone within an AP TMC, PTM, they should all

Shaun: 00:12:20

have tactical medical skills?

Shaun: 00:12:21

Or do you think.

Shaun: 00:12:23

Dilute their primary purpose and CP rules.

Shaun: 00:12:26

Well,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:27

I believe that every executive protection agent should

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:29

have the basics of tactical medicine, um, that the basic T triple C skills,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:34

something that they, um, well, the U S military, when they rolled out the T

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:38

triple C program said, we need a program that we can teach to every soldier.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:43

Well, because we cannot make everybody into paramedics.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:46

Not everybody needs to be a paramedic, but everybody needs the basics.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:49

Everybody needs to be able to keep the paramedic as far away as possible.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:12:55

From the actual action, but keep them alive.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:00

Keep the patients alive long enough for them to get them there.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:03

So if, if my executive protection team can take care of a patient and I can stay

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:08

out of harm's way, as long as possible.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:10

Well, my life is going to be easier, but the team will also have

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:13

an asset standing by somewhere.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:15

However, if I am just the only embedded technical paramedic, I'm the only one

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:19

with any tactical knowledge on medicine or any medical knowledge, I will have

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:24

to be there in the heat of things, because otherwise we might lose the.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:29

Now I don't, I don't want to, because you know, I can hear people say,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:32

well, it doesn't happen everyday that people get shot and bleed to death.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:36

Absolutely.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:36

Right.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:37

And, and, you know, 99.9% of our work is.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:41

And we do something else, but I always said, I don't want to be a statistic.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:45

I don't want to be the topic of the next podcast that fell in.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:49

Does I'm saying a textbook paramedic got shot because, well,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:52

he went into the heat of it.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:54

So in order to avoid that, we need more medical knowledge, um, within the

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:13:59

teams and professional teams, I believe should invest in that and not just a

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:14:05

five yearly course, but if, if you go shooting every single day, Why not add a

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:14:11

medical drill into your, in, in the end of your shooting class, just as well.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:14:15

It'll take you five minutes, but it will keep your skills sharp.

Shaun: 00:14:19

Yeah, for sure.

Shaun: 00:14:19

I agree with everything you've just said there, I mean, medical skills

Shaun: 00:14:23

is one of the main skills that you still have a skill fade from.

Shaun: 00:14:27

If you're not practicing it, if you're not going through your drills and

Shaun: 00:14:30

carrying out further training, um, and you see a lot of people they'll

Shaun: 00:14:33

do their, that course and the expiry date will be in three years time.

Shaun: 00:14:37

But if you don't do any.

Shaun: 00:14:39

No further on training during that, you're going to lose a lot of that.

Shaun: 00:14:44

You don't lose the skill set, but it's not as fresh as what it would be if

Shaun: 00:14:47

you're carrying out regular training.

Shaun: 00:14:50

And what you said, I think, you know, if you have a team and you have several

Shaun: 00:14:55

team members, Ideally the whole team who were trained in tactical medicine,

Shaun: 00:15:00

the confidence that gives to that team when they're ruling out them gates,

Shaun: 00:15:04

if you're working in, you know, Iraq, Afghanistan, you know, if the shit hits

Shaun: 00:15:08

the fan, you've got several team members that who knew, how to react, how to

Shaun: 00:15:12

patch you up while things going down.

Shaun: 00:15:15

And, you know, there's a lot of talk of the golden hour.

Shaun: 00:15:18

If you were to, you know, remote environment somewhere like that, it could

Shaun: 00:15:21

be hours before you're getting that help.

Shaun: 00:15:24

So by having someone in your team or ideally the majority of your

Shaun: 00:15:28

team members trained in tactical medicine, they're able to stabilize

Shaun: 00:15:33

that area and keep that person alive.

Shaun: 00:15:35

You know, just through some basic skills, it doesn't have to be any

Shaun: 00:15:39

paramedic skills, just doing the basics.

Shaun: 00:15:41

Well, to give that person the best chances.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:15:44

Uh, you know what I've noticed and I'm saying this without any

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:15:48

prejudice to, to whomever whatsoever.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:15:50

I mean, I, I'm just being brutally honest about things.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:15:53

Technical medicine is also about, you know, you as an operator,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:15:57

as a medical operator being fit.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:00

Um, if you look at, at the majority of our medical providers, unfortunately

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:06

most of them are unfit people.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:08

Paramedics don't tend to be very.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:11

'cause they sit, sit around in an ambulance a whole lot of time, and

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:14

there's not a whole lot that they're doing well, of course they're saving lives.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:17

I'm not saying they're not doing anything, but they're not being

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:19

physical, being a technical paramedic.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:21

I need to be able to grab somebody and, and extract them.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:25

I need to be able to be with the teams and on the, on those teams.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:29

So the part in which my whole team is a medic, um, takes away stress and release

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:37

stress from the paramedic himself.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:39

And makes me keep fit as well, because I need to be able to

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:43

follow up, follow the teams.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:44

And, and I noticed for myself, I've gone through a hell of a journey up and down

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:49

in, in trying to keep myself very fit, to be able to keep running with the young

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:54

guys and doing, keep doing this job.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:16:56

So, um, I think that the tactical doesn't just, you know,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:17:00

tactical is such a big word.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:17:02

It's not just a pew pew around the corner.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:17:05

It's the, uh, it's your ability to.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:17:09

A little bit differently than in the comfort of the zone that you're working.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:17:13

And you need to be able to think outside of your zone of comfort.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:17:16

And then, then your tactical, it's not just the pup or on the.

Shaun: 00:17:21

Yeah, no, I think like you said, as you, as you described the paramedic,

Shaun: 00:17:27

they aren't used to situations like that.

Shaun: 00:17:29

They're used to working in ideal circumstances and all to you on a

Shaun: 00:17:33

motorway or, or something where there's no further threat from gunfire or hostiles.

Shaun: 00:17:40

So being a tactical paramedic, you have that.

Shaun: 00:17:43

No about you, you know, you can take stock of a situation and plan the

Shaun: 00:17:49

next move whilst still giving care to the, you know, the people around you.

Shaun: 00:17:54

Um, but yeah, having a type of automatic and the team, it it's,

Shaun: 00:17:57

it's a fourth bullet player.

Shaun: 00:17:58

You know, you, you can provide training to your team constantly, as we spoke about,

Shaun: 00:18:04

you know, you can guide them on the Lord.

Shaun: 00:18:06

If you do have an incident, you're there, you can provide immediate care.

Shaun: 00:18:11

You know, you've given a confidence to the team that you knew what

Shaun: 00:18:15

you're doing, but also posted.

Shaun: 00:18:20

You can provide a debrief on what went wrong, what they could have

Shaun: 00:18:23

done better, all being all, all very good, everyone survives.

Shaun: 00:18:28

And what better way of speaking on the back of an incident?

Shaun: 00:18:32

Everyone comes out good and you can say revert straight back to that.

Shaun: 00:18:35

And everyone shuts up and listens because they've just been through it.

Shaun: 00:18:40

And they've seen the firsthand bouncing off the back of incidents.

Shaun: 00:18:43

Now.

Shaun: 00:18:44

Because there is, you know, over the last 20 years, lots of hostile environments

Shaun: 00:18:49

where there's been lots of need for your highly trained medics, tactical medics.

Shaun: 00:18:55

One of the other things that brings value to the team as well, and can

Shaun: 00:18:59

maybe bring value is post deployment.

Shaun: 00:19:04

You guys have gone through a lot of stress.

Shaun: 00:19:06

you've seen lots of reoccurring things with post-traumatic stress.

Shaun: 00:19:10

Happening post a lot of deployments.

Shaun: 00:19:11

Now, are you seeing an emergence of tactical mental health medicine with

Shaun: 00:19:16

the medic technology medic can provide guidance, advice to these guys who

Shaun: 00:19:21

are maybe suffering from PTSD or.

Shaun: 00:19:24

Giving some advice, post incidents to help them with deal with trauma.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:28

Well, w what I have noticed is that, um, fortunately things

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:31

are changing a little bit and, um, having a, somebody who is considered

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:36

very versatile in medicine, on the team, people will trust that person more.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:41

So, you know, you can have an EPT and everybody did their teacher C training.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:44

They went through the three days and everything is all good and TJ, but

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:48

you have somebody that they call.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:50

Because, well, the guy, you know, has done six weeks of

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:52

study or six months of studying.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:19:55

Um, and when something happens, so post-incident, um, if this person

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:00

is open to it, he will at least recognize the signs of, of somebody

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:04

needing help and needing support.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:06

And I believe it's a big role, um, because if you are a technical

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:10

paramedic, then you have been running.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:11

Through these trainings with your guys.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:13

So, you know, you understand, you know, the, the alpha male dominance in, in our

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:17

industry, and you understand that nobody wants to cry about what just happened, or

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:21

nobody wants to talk about the fact that, you know, they peed themselves when they

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:24

got shot at, um, however, because you ran through with them and they know that

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:29

that, that you have been there, done that.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:32

You are the same kind of person they will open up to you more.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:35

And that I think Dan is a medic and the team is going to be your

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:20:38

responsibility to go and, and, you know, raise the flag when necessary.

Shaun: 00:20:43

Yeah, no, I totally agree with us.

Shaun: 00:20:45

I mean, every, any incident that happens, you know, everyone deals

Shaun: 00:20:49

with it differently and it's not about being, you know, the big

Shaun: 00:20:52

mountain, you know, I think everyone.

Shaun: 00:20:55

August the tolerance of how many incidents you can, how many close

Shaun: 00:21:00

calls you can have before you start.

Shaun: 00:21:02

You look starts running out and you start, you know, you realize, you think you're

Shaun: 00:21:06

pretty lucky to get through these things.

Shaun: 00:21:08

You know, I've seen it before with guys where they've had one incident,

Shaun: 00:21:12

too many and they come back and you see that, you know, they're suffering.

Shaun: 00:21:16

And several guys who did they turned to alcohol or whatever it may be.

Shaun: 00:21:21

And.

Shaun: 00:21:22

You know, many years ago, there wasn't the support out there for these people,

Shaun: 00:21:25

but it's definitely more recognized these days, which is good to see.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:29

Yeah, I agree.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:31

It is more recognized.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:32

And even on the teams itself, um, guys are talking about it by themselves.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:36

There's support groups just formed by the guys because they and girls, obviously,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:41

because we, you know, there is more and more females in the industry as well.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:45

Um, and there's just more talk about it.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:46

There's more support groups and there there's more people

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:49

thinking about it because.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:51

Um, well, I have friends and that I've worked with that have come to me and

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:55

said, I want to join the industry again.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:21:57

But I had to quit for a couple of months because I just couldn't, you know, I

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:00

couldn't do it anymore, which is, which is nice to see that they're actually

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:04

talking about it because they would just disappear from the screen and then

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:07

you'll be like, well, he didn't cut it, but it's not about being able to cut it.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:11

It's it's about, I believe.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:14

Everybody goes through it in a different way and handles it in a different way,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:17

but everybody has the same damage.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:21

It's just, you know, how long can you keep running with that damage?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:24

And it's not healthy for your team.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:26

It's not healthy for our clients.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:27

It must healthy for our industry because it shows in the professionalism.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:31

Um, so, you know, Putting out some effort into, into debt.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:36

All the post-trauma things is definitely necessary.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:40

And using those post-trauma events to show fresh teams what

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:45

we are actually talking about.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:22:47

Yeah.

Shaun: 00:22:47

Yeah.

Shaun: 00:22:47

I mean, I, I work for a number of years in hostile environments.

Shaun: 00:22:51

I remember as a, as a young, you know, as, as a soldier, I, then when I left

Shaun: 00:22:56

the army, As a close protection operator.

Shaun: 00:22:58

And I used to love the job.

Shaun: 00:22:59

You know, you, you go out there.

Shaun: 00:23:01

It's fantastic.

Shaun: 00:23:02

I love being a soldier.

Shaun: 00:23:04

I love being out there working with like-minded people and we, you

Shaun: 00:23:07

know, used to go out on the ground.

Shaun: 00:23:09

You'd see incidents, you'd be involved in incidents.

Shaun: 00:23:12

And I always used to think when

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:23:14

it come back

Shaun: 00:23:14

on, fight it doesn't, you know, it's funny.

Shaun: 00:23:17

Be sure.

Shaun: 00:23:17

Okay.

Shaun: 00:23:18

You move on, you do the next incident and it doesn't bother you.

Shaun: 00:23:21

I remember one day I made the decision to come back.

Shaun: 00:23:24

I was going to come back and work in the UK, set myself up.

Shaun: 00:23:28

I think it was when I had my second child, I thought that was

Shaun: 00:23:30

the time I'm gonna come back.

Shaun: 00:23:32

I don't if to go to these companies anymore.

Shaun: 00:23:35

And I remember sitting on the plane from, uh, from Qubole to

Shaun: 00:23:38

Dubai, Dubai, back to the UK.

Shaun: 00:23:40

I remember I sat on the plane and I ordered, uh, I thought I'd

Shaun: 00:23:43

submitted decision then without anything I'm not coming back.

Shaun: 00:23:47

I remember I ordered a whiskey of the, um, air hostess.

Shaun: 00:23:51

She brought me a whiskey and I tried to get.

Shaun: 00:23:54

And then I ordered them and I remember just thinking it was like the weird

Shaun: 00:23:58

of the world off my shoulders.

Shaun: 00:24:00

Cause I I'd made that decision.

Shaun: 00:24:01

I'm not going back.

Shaun: 00:24:02

And I didn't realize I carried any weight because I enjoyed every deployment,

Shaun: 00:24:06

but I remember sitting there thinking I'm coming back, I'm going home.

Shaun: 00:24:09

I've got, you know, both my legs, both my arms, you know, I'm in tucked.

Shaun: 00:24:13

We have got many friends who want, and you know, who aren't looking off to be here.

Shaun: 00:24:17

And it was a huge relief to actually come back and think, wow, you know, I'm okay.

Shaun: 00:24:24

And it's just stress that I didn't really.

Shaun: 00:24:27

that I carried.

Shaun: 00:24:28

but yeah, flying buck it.

Shaun: 00:24:30

Yeah, it did.

Shaun: 00:24:30

It came out.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:31

I can totally relate whether you're saying

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:34

last deployment to Libya.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:36

Um, we got, uh, we had a very close.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:39

Um, and, and I had never felt this before, but we, as soon as we went back

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:45

to the compound, the first thing that I did was, was give my wife a call.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:48

And I told her, honey, we just had an incident.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:50

Everybody's doing fine, but it, it just shook me up.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:53

And it's not the first time that it happened.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:55

But for some reason, what was it?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:57

The drip in the bucket?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:24:58

Was it, was it my age, honestly, I don't know what it was, but I

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:02

went back to the compound and I was like, dude, you know what?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:05

I don't want to do.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:07

I do want to keep alive and, and I, I shrugged it off again and I'm

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:13

back on deployments and nothing.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:14

There's absolutely nothing wrong.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:16

However, I, I, I, I tend to look at my kid better.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:20

Uh, I tend to look at my colleagues better and ask them, are you prepared?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:23

Are you ready?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:24

Like, like, can you help me?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:25

Can you, can you be my colleague?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:27

And they said, well, yeah, Chris, but you know, it's, it's not, not everything is.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:31

And I said, well, no, it's not, but when it goes, south, everything is going to be

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:36

depending on the medicine that we can do.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:38

So, so I need you to be good.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:40

And I enjoy training my own team more and more just because of that, because

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:45

I realized that whoa man, it's not because I'm the medic that I'm in.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:50

And then I remember the images of the second world war, where

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:53

they had the big red cross.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:54

And what does the red cross mean?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:55

Well, this is where you shoot, like yeah.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:25:59

It doesn't matter who you are, you, you know?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:26:02

And, uh, yeah.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:26:03

So I can relate to what you said.

Shaun: 00:26:04

Yeah.

Shaun: 00:26:04

I mean, it's, it's funny and I don't, I don't know what it is.

Shaun: 00:26:07

I don't know if it, at the time, if it's kind of mindset and training

Shaun: 00:26:11

that, you know, whilst I'm a former paratrooper and you know, when you're

Shaun: 00:26:14

going through training as a young.

Shaun: 00:26:16

Surely you get, it's almost, it's a conditioning.

Shaun: 00:26:19

You get almost brainwashed as a young, you know, as a, as a human recruiter,

Shaun: 00:26:23

you're the best, you're the best unit.

Shaun: 00:26:25

You're better than the unit alongside you.

Shaun: 00:26:28

And it does it.

Shaun: 00:26:29

It's a, it's a good mentality.

Shaun: 00:26:31

That's got, I believe drilled into me as a, as a paratrooper.

Shaun: 00:26:35

And it's served me well for a number of years.

Shaun: 00:26:37

And I think when I went out to these.

Shaun: 00:26:39

Like I said, I didn't feel like anything affected me.

Shaun: 00:26:42

It didn't when I was doing the job, I didn't, as far as I'm aware, it was

Shaun: 00:26:45

when the, I made this decision to come back and it was just like the relief.

Shaun: 00:26:49

And that just, that you didn't know you were carrying it.

Shaun: 00:26:51

It was just, I don't know if it's just that when you switch off, you

Shaun: 00:26:55

don't need to be like God at anymore.

Shaun: 00:26:57

And it was, um, yeah, it was, it was great.

Shaun: 00:26:59

It was a nice feeling.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:00

Yeah.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:00

I can't imagine.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:01

For sure.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:02

Well, you know, we need to, we need to make sure that the young guys

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:06

coming into the industry understand, understand a little bit of this.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:09

We need to keep them on that, on that level, that they were drilled into

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:13

going through the military to police or whatever, because we need those

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:15

young guys who are, who are going for it and who get the stuff done.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:20

Um, but on the other hand, we need to make them realize that the world is

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:24

changing slightly and the threat is different today than it was yesterday.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:30

And there's a beautiful picture of, um, the evacuations in Afghanistan.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:35

There is a, um, it's a, private is a paramedic who stands in the middle

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:39

of the, of, of, um, of the airport.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:42

And the caption says it's what a feeling to be the only

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:45

medic between all these men.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:48

Um, and he was absolutely right because, well, he was the only medic at the time

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:53

and a medic can have so many rules.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:27:56

Um, from putting on band-aids and giving wet socks and, and most people that have a

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:00

headache and then people that I wet socks.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:02

Yeah.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:02

It trust me, it works.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:04

Um, but also, you know, helping the kids and, and doing good work, which

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:10

allows people that are the pew pew people and the fast drivers, give them

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:15

medical skills and give them the feeling that they can actually save lives.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:20

Um, we'll make them appreciate their own lives.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:23

That much more.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:24

At least that's what I did for me.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:26

Uh, I understood now, now that I understand what holes do to you,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:30

um, and I want to plug them, uh, I appreciate my own life that much better.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:35

So I think sharing this information is vital.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:38

Um, teaching them a little bit about it, so they understand, you know,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:41

what's on this side of the gun, what's on the other side of the famous

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:45

saying, do no harm, but do know.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:28:49

I think that's very important.

Phelim: 00:28:51

So, so, so Chris let's, um, I mean, this is, this is fascinating, right?

Phelim: 00:28:56

This is, this is fascinating testimony from you both.

Phelim: 00:28:58

And, and I think it really brings everything to life.

Phelim: 00:29:01

Uh, pardon the pun.

Phelim: 00:29:03

But what I'd be interested in is just maybe in conclusion,

Phelim: 00:29:09

what does the right skill set.

Phelim: 00:29:13

Look like, and where can you attain it?

Phelim: 00:29:14

Because do we want to go and poach a, a load of paramedics from hospitals?

Phelim: 00:29:19

Is that the wrong skillset?

Phelim: 00:29:21

Because paramedics are like, I think it's a registered professional trademark

Phelim: 00:29:26

or something and they're not tactical.

Phelim: 00:29:29

So.

Phelim: 00:29:29

Um, sure.

Phelim: 00:29:30

We can increase people's medical skills, but what if they want to

Phelim: 00:29:33

become a tactical medic within EP?

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:37

Okay.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:37

So within the executive protection industry, I don't believe that we really

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:41

need to poach the paramedics of the streets and from the hospitals, because

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:44

it's not the right skillset that we want.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:47

However, what we do want to do.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:50

It is provide them with the good basic life support skills.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:53

Give them the T triple C skills for sure.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:29:57

And then give them a little bit extra, um, giving them the, taking

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:04

them towards the tactical paramedics.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:06

They don't all have to be paramedics, but giving it a little bit more so

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:10

that they can make the decision, the difference between the

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:14

paramedic that wants everything, the EPH, and that doesn't have any.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:19

And then have them be that medic that can juggle between the two and

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:23

say, okay, I cannot give my patient whole blood because we don't carry

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:27

whole blood because we cannot.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:29

However, I know what it means.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:31

If I can only give him fluids, which a paramedical tell you, oh no, you can

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:36

only give whole blood because fluids it's been shown the last six months.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:40

It's not good.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:41

However, I will tell you, well, if that's the only choice I have, I know

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:45

how to use it, to keep my patients alive.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:48

So the paramedic is going to do everything to keep the patient

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:51

comfortable, alive and dancing.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:30:54

While the tactical paramedic, the EAP guy, all he needs to do is not save a life is

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:00

not keep the patient dancing, just keep them alive long enough so that they can

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:06

get to a paramedic that knows what he's.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:10

And that's what we need.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:11

So, you know, be basic life support is not enough.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:14

Being a full paramedic for the whole team is too much.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:17

We need to be in between.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:19

And there is very nice, um, courses.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:21

The teacher will see course ITLs international trauma, life support or PHC,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:26

prehospital, trauma, life support courses.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:28

Like those will give more information to them, but not too

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:32

much because giving them too much information, giving them too much.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:37

We'll lead to them.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:38

One thing to become paramedics and then the focus shifts of protection and goes

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:43

to para-medicine like it did with me.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:46

So we don't want that.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:47

We just want to give them enough in which they say with this

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:50

skillset, I am confident I can do.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:54

But not, not that much that, because that's what happened to me.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:31:57

I went and did some courses and I said, okay, but now I have this skillset, but I

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:01

need more to be able to use this skillset.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:03

We need to stop at a certain point.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:05

And th this is where, uh, doing a teacher will see course to understand

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:08

the tactics and adding a prehospital trauma life support course onto it.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:12

The PhD ALS course, which is a great course, will, will give

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:16

the EPT team enough to be able to do something to prolong life.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:23

And wanting them to stay on the protection side of things.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:32:26

Exactly what you

Shaun: 00:32:26

said there as well, but in the intermediary between the paramedic and

Shaun: 00:32:31

the team, if you're in the middle and you understand the care you've given it,

Shaun: 00:32:36

didn't have the communication as well, between when you had the Nova to the

Shaun: 00:32:38

next level of, of care, you know what you've dealt with, you know, What you've

Shaun: 00:32:42

done when you put that toner key on when you've, what you've patched up, what you

Shaun: 00:32:46

haven't, or you can do a good handover to the next level of care so they can

Shaun: 00:32:50

use their time as best possible instead of wasting time, trying to find out, you

Shaun: 00:32:55

know, if they've got a secondary tertiary injuries, you've already afforded them

Shaun: 00:32:59

and you can pass it on and a nice package in a language that they understand.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:03

Basically, we, we, we want the executive protection agent

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:06

to be able to look at Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet executed by

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:10

Leonardo DiCaprio and understand it.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:12

But I don't want them to be able to read Shakespeare because if they can

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:16

read Shakespeare, they will look too much into it and they will miss skill.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:20

I will read Shakespeare.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:33:21

You just tell me what Leonardo just told, like Juliet, and then we'll be fine.

Phelim: 00:33:28

I love it.

Phelim: 00:33:28

And that's maybe a good place to leave it on.

Phelim: 00:33:31

Obviously, uh, any, any, any, any actual training needs to be properly

Phelim: 00:33:36

trained, but you need to actually go and probably do the teacher will

Phelim: 00:33:38

say you need to properly do the pre, uh, hospital, uh, trauma training.

Phelim: 00:33:43

Um, but hopefully this has given people a lot of direction and maybe

Phelim: 00:33:46

they're at UOP, uh, colleagues out there thinking, okay, Yeah, this could

Phelim: 00:33:50

be me, um, over, over COVID, uh, we had a number of thoughts didn't we?

Phelim: 00:33:55

We had thoughts about what, uh, demands could be made on the tactical medic.

Phelim: 00:33:58

Um, perhaps, uh, we needed an MD embedded with every, uh, you know,

Phelim: 00:34:03

thing, uh, maybe not, maybe not.

Phelim: 00:34:05

Um, but, uh, but a tactical medic has, as you say, that that place in between that

Phelim: 00:34:10

is, uh, That is where it should be at.

Phelim: 00:34:14

I believe, um,

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:34:17

uh, next for me is going to be a week of teaching

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:34:19

heat, hostile environment, awareness, training, and France.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:34:22

And then after that, it looks like I'm going to Senegal.

Phelim: 00:34:25

Very nice.

Phelim: 00:34:27

Yeah, we like, uh, all things west Africa, we did a, an entirely west African

Phelim: 00:34:31

event, which you kind of participated in.

Phelim: 00:34:33

Um, I think, uh, it's a, it's a very, very important area for AP and AP colleagues.

Phelim: 00:34:39

Fantastic.

Phelim: 00:34:39

Well from Sean and myself.

Phelim: 00:34:40

Thank you very much for giving us the lowdown on tactical medicine, setting us

Phelim: 00:34:45

straight, um, you know, busting myths and, uh, and, and setting us on the right path.

Phelim: 00:34:51

Um, thanks for being such an excellent guest for the second magazine podcast.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:34:56

Um, thank you so much, Sean.

Kris Zerkowitz: 00:34:57

It was an excellent honor for myself to be on

Phelim: 00:35:16

well, I definitely want Chris on my team, especially if I go to somewhere

Phelim: 00:35:20

hostile, especially if there is no hospital nearby, what a great episode.

Phelim: 00:35:26

And I thought excellent testimony from you both.

Phelim: 00:35:29

You really brought that to life.

Phelim: 00:35:31

Um, thank you very much, Sean.

Phelim: 00:35:33

What, what did you take away from today's?

Shaun: 00:35:36

I always like you're from Christian.

Shaun: 00:35:38

He just oozes knowledge and passion for the subject.

Shaun: 00:35:42

And I like the way he described, the Shakespeare.

Shaun: 00:35:45

I don't need to know all of Shakespeare.

Shaun: 00:35:48

I just need to know this particular part.

Shaun: 00:35:50

That's my job.

Shaun: 00:35:52

I'm going to do it well.

Shaun: 00:35:53

And then I pass it on to the paramedic or the hospital.

Shaun: 00:35:56

It's going to take it with the next stage of care.

Shaun: 00:35:58

And I think that's, that was a great explanation of,

Shaun: 00:36:00

the rule of a tactical medic

Phelim: 00:36:02

It was wasn't it.

Phelim: 00:36:03

And people can imagine maybe themselves in the role and, and

Phelim: 00:36:07

they can imagine developing their skillset in that, in that regard.

Phelim: 00:36:11

And maybe it's helped people to lose some inhibitions because maybe people thought,

Phelim: 00:36:16

ah, I have to go to medical school.

Phelim: 00:36:18

I need to get a, an MD.

Phelim: 00:36:21

Uh, you know, the degree, uh, maybe I need to become an actual paramedic in

Phelim: 00:36:26

the ambulance service, and then maybe I can move on, but it's nothing like that.

Phelim: 00:36:30

Right.

Phelim: 00:36:30

It's short, it's skilled.

Phelim: 00:36:33

But it is much more practical and you got to keep the principle alive

Phelim: 00:36:38

until such time as someone can take over which, which again is, is another

Phelim: 00:36:44

string to your bow, but it's not just having CPR in your back pocket.

Phelim: 00:36:47

It's not just saying I've attended this course.

Phelim: 00:36:50

Ergo.

Phelim: 00:36:50

I can do CPR.

Phelim: 00:36:52

Um, T triple C.

Phelim: 00:36:54

He mentioned as well as some of the specialist's courses about keeping

Phelim: 00:36:57

people, uh, well, or at least stable.

Phelim: 00:37:01

Um, before they end up in medical camp.

Phelim: 00:37:05

What else have we got coming up then?

Phelim: 00:37:07

Because it seems that everything is ramping up

Shaun: 00:37:09

again.

Shaun: 00:37:10

Yeah.

Shaun: 00:37:10

Well, we have the next issue of the second magazine coming out shortly issue 60.

Shaun: 00:37:14

Wow.

Shaun: 00:37:14

I can't believe we've got to 60 issues.

Shaun: 00:37:17

That's a fixed day.

Shaun: 00:37:18

A big milestone.

Shaun: 00:37:19

And separate to that we have on the 19th of November, I think we'll

Shaun: 00:37:24

have a few more podcasts before then, but put it in your diary.

Shaun: 00:37:28

Cause we have a circuit online event coming up on managing

Shaun: 00:37:31

violence in the workplace where we have some great speakers on that.

Shaun: 00:37:35

Maybe you can tell us a bit more about that.

Shaun: 00:37:36

So we've got like,

Phelim: 00:37:38

Well, absolutely.

Phelim: 00:37:39

I'm going to reveal the, uh, agenda soon, but, uh, one interesting feature

Phelim: 00:37:43

is that it will be good for the UK, the us and the Australian time zones.

Phelim: 00:37:48

So we'll be in the UK.

Phelim: 00:37:52

The U S afternoon.

Phelim: 00:37:54

And, uh, we will also be there in the Australian morning.

Phelim: 00:37:59

So, so, so that's quite interesting.

Phelim: 00:38:01

And, and that might give you a hint about what we're going to try and

Phelim: 00:38:04

achieve with that, because there are, of course, lots of professionals around

Phelim: 00:38:07

the world, including Australia, which we need to bring together to achieve it.

Shaun: 00:38:12

No, I look at them.

Shaun: 00:38:13

I love them times on hopping events that you put on there all was great.

Shaun: 00:38:18

Great.

Shaun: 00:38:18

The visit.

Phelim: 00:38:19

It's good.

Phelim: 00:38:20

You just got to watch out for summer time and, uh, and all of that,

Phelim: 00:38:23

but, uh, w w w we're reasonably synchronized at this time of year.

Phelim: 00:38:27

So, so everything to blow for.

Phelim: 00:38:29

Hey, um, I've been, uh, very impressed with the level of engagement

Phelim: 00:38:33

on the BBA connect app as well.

Phelim: 00:38:35

And also the neighbor protect app.

Phelim: 00:38:39

I did this maybe a few weeks ago, but I thought why don't a little

Phelim: 00:38:41

bit of a shout out to people who have been quite active on the app.

Phelim: 00:38:45

Um, so on the BBA connect app, uh, thank you, Mike Dalton, uh, Michael

Phelim: 00:38:49

Hudson Miranda posts and Raymond Moore.

Phelim: 00:38:52

Obviously there are other people, but I thought that they were particularly

Phelim: 00:38:55

active and on the Napa protector app at Maurice Eastern Eaton, Mark

Phelim: 00:39:00

James, uh, Ben lever, agent Goldberg, uh, Antonio, and also Tim Smith.

Phelim: 00:39:05

Lots of great things, including the protector, Graham love,

Phelim: 00:39:08

those photos, love those photos.

Phelim: 00:39:10

Um, and, uh, and also lots of help for new entrance.

Phelim: 00:39:14

People are sort of going in there saying I knew and an everyone is jumping on

Phelim: 00:39:18

board and offering their help, which, which is, you know, really one of

Phelim: 00:39:22

the big objectives of all of this.

Shaun: 00:39:25

That's one of the key things about the ops and that's

Shaun: 00:39:27

why we created them, you know, to get there, to get people to know.

Shaun: 00:39:32

Reach out and reach out, ask for help and to provide help to others who may need.

Shaun: 00:39:38

And if you haven't downloaded them, please take a look.

Shaun: 00:39:41

I think you'll find them very helpful.

Shaun: 00:39:43

Indeed.

Phelim: 00:39:44

And data in a way they serve as tactical, uh, wellbeing for the community.

Phelim: 00:39:49

Um, obviously it's nothing official like that, but it's, it is great to

Phelim: 00:39:53

have that community-based, uh, approach.

Phelim: 00:39:55

And as Kristin did say, you know, everyone is looking for that.

Phelim: 00:39:59

There's a hunger, uh, for, uh, you know, being part of a community and also, uh,

Phelim: 00:40:04

looking to good source of information.

Phelim: 00:40:06

So I like, I like that link back with today's podcast topic.

Phelim: 00:40:12

Fantastic.

Phelim: 00:40:12

Well, embedding a tactical paramedic, not being a full medical doctor,

Phelim: 00:40:17

not being simply another CPR course.

Phelim: 00:40:19

That is a happy medium.

Phelim: 00:40:21

And that happy medium could be you.

Phelim: 00:40:25

If you want to know more, please reach out to Christian or us.

Phelim: 00:40:29

Uh, but this has been another fantastic edition of the circuit magazine podcasts.

Intro: 00:40:39

you have been listening to the circuit magazine podcast,

Intro: 00:40:42

be sure to subscribe and be sure to not miss an episode.